Well, it's about time to kick Dubya out

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Shadow Hog	Well, it's about time to kick Dubya out	Lead	[-]
Posts: 13718 (11/03/2008 12:03 AM) "The miracle never happen." Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	I know there've been a few topics about how idiotic Palin is or about "unbiased" reports that make Obama look awful or so on, but none actually discussing the vote itself. So, here it is. Tuesday's the big day, and there's only one day separating us between now and then. So which are you leaning toward? The conservative McCain and Palin? The liberal Obama and Biden? The oft-forgotten Ralph Nader? Moreover, why? And, if you can vote, will you, did you, who for (if you feel comfortable saying that)? As for me, definitely Obama. No disrespect for John McCain, he's a good man and would probably be a good president... but I really hate the tone of his campaign, and I'm not really looking for four more years of a Republican administration seeking to prolong the Iraq war (albeit pulling out immediately is just dumb, but still). Certainly, I have some beefs with Obama (he's started this presidential campaign perhaps earlier than he should've; he's unabashedly for partial abortion, and while I'm pro-choice, his unwavering support for it stands out as queer; he promises the world, but doesn't really detail where the money will come from; I still know very little about Joe Biden), but not enough to really sway me away from the guy (and no, he's not a terrorist like Ayers, he's not an Arab, he doesn't hate America like Rev. Wright does, etc. - that's the Republicans grasping at straws, IMO). Also, Palin is about the most conservative candidate I think I've ever seen, and is precisely the kind of person I want to see OUT of my White House. That really is hurting McCain, sadly... As for other issues, voting yes for slots in my state, and I'm completely undecided on what to say for Congress - as much as I regret this, I may abstain from voting there, simply because making a blind vote down party lines isn't truly helping anyone. It's really not impossible for there to be a Republican I wouldn't mind voting for, so...
Hiro0015		#1	[-]
Posts: 2650 (11/03/2008 12:20 AM) King of Ellipsis... Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	I'll come out as one of the few people on the forum who is voting McCain. I'd rather take my chances with known evil then unknown. That said I think both are poor choices. I'm not going to lie, I'm very bitter about this whole election. Minnesota has one of the most heated senate races in the country and therefore we have just been pounded with damned political ads since about July =\|. I am sick of the damned back and forth bickering, the negative campaigns... and the ungodly amount of money EVERYONE is wasting in this damned election. Both sides are twisted, both are corrupt, both promise us the world but will never deliver on that promise. oh, and when I voted in 2004, I voted W in 8O... and I don't regret it DUH DUH DUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUH
Squishie		#2	[-]
Posts: 1652 (11/03/2008 12:47 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	If I could vote, I'd vote for Obama in a heartbeat. Alas, I cannot.
Ultra Sonic 007		#3	[-]
Posts: 15285 (11/03/2008 1:15 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	McCain. Not the guy I was going for in the beginning (I was rooting for Fred Thompson), but infinitely preferable to Obama the Socialist despite his faults. Also, Palin is about the most conservative candidate I think I've ever seen, and is precisely the kind of person I want to see OUT of my White House. That really is hurting McCain, sadly... Oddly enough Shadow Hog, Palin's probably the only reason the race is as tight as it is. Without her, well...the conservative Republican base would be utterly morose, to put it bluntly. (And concerning negative campaigning, am I the only one that finds it odd that Democrats are the only ones playing the race card?) EDIT: And someone please inform Obama and the DNC that Bush isn't running for a third term. Last Edited By: Ultra Sonic 007 11/03/2008 1:18 AM. Edited 1 times.
gammarallyson		#4	[-]
Posts: 401 (11/03/2008 1:25 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Right after someone reminds the current ruling party that Arab Americans and Muslims are NOT terrorists (Seriously, it's the one thing that has nagged me through this campaign). *Quote:* For TRUTH!
D B Vulpix		#5	[-]
Posts: 1110 (11/03/2008 8:52 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	I'm either voting for Mc Cain or for the always overlooked Independent. The racial dirt being slung around was inevitable but whatever. Both sides played the race card to a certain extent ( I think the democrats did it more >.> ) and I thnk it was more the party than the candidates themselves. A reason why McCain's adds have been so negative is because he's running out of campaign money. On the other hand people were tossing donations at Obama left and right. I don't like Obama but I think the chances of him winning are rather large. While McCain seems to only have a chance "in theory" Fanfiction: Canis Canem Venture Last Edited By: D B Vulpix 11/03/2008 8:57 AM. Edited 2 times.
Ultra Sonic 007		#6	[-]
Posts: 15287 (11/03/2008 9:15 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	One of the problems I have with Obama is that credit card donations can be made via his website...but that the verification mechanisms have been turned off (you know, AVS, or address verification system...same thing for the CSC, or the three to four-digit code on the back of a credit card). I mean, there is NO good reason for the Obama campaign to have turned those mechanisms off. None. The Obama campaign claims that they vet the donations after the fact, but that's hogwash. It costs far more to do that than to screen for security codes and address verification up front. And everyone knows it.
TransFAN92		#7	[-]
Posts: 2074 (11/03/2008 2:14 PM) Feuer Frei! Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	McCain wins 51 to 49. The Bradley Effect is going to be too powerful to ignore. Not to mention with McCain in office, there will be no tests of his leadership ability internationally, and while neither will probably change much, at least McCain is a socialist. Like hell I will give my money to human pollution to pay for prescription drugs they will pawn on the streets. Clear out this pre existing clause BS and it will curb the people who actually need health care because of bad luck by a wide margin. McCain is old and irrelevant, but at least his solutions aren't throw money at everything. I will say though I predict no matter who wins, they will be a 4 and out. Gripping the wheel his knuckles went white with desire The wheels of his Mustang exploding on the highway like a slug from a .45 True death: 400 horsepower of maximum performance piercing the night This is black sunshine.
Ultra Sonic 007		#8	[-]
Posts: 15292 (11/03/2008 2:52 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Here's the funny thing about racism; we have six categories of racist voters. Racist Democrats who will vote for Obama. Racist Democrats who will NOT vote for Obama. Racist Republicans who will vote for Obama. Racist Republicans who will NOT vote for Obama. Racist Independents who will vote for Obama. Racist Independents who will NOT vote for Obama. I doubt there are many Republicans that will vote for Obama in huge numbers anyway, racist or no. So it would come down to the racists amongst the Democrats and the Independents...provided the Bradley Effect is as big of a factor as you think it is (and it might be, it might not...I'd wager people who aren't voting for him are doing so because of his policies and not his skin color). Heck, despite the race card being drawn in this election, Obama wouldn't be where he is without the votes of white liberals. So hearing recent comments about racism from the likes of John Murtha only strike me as self-defeating.
Rapidfire the Hedgehog		#9	[-]
Posts: 721 (11/03/2008 2:52 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	I'm an Obama proponent. I've never subscribed to the broadly conservative argument that I'd rather drive my car into a brick wall at 70 mph because I know how it will end rather than take a route whose destination I don't know. Candidly, America needs to clean its house a bit. That is the role of nation-builders, not nation-invaders. With the global economy sharing a space with Prince Albert--that is, in the can--and the epicentre of that shockwave being the United States, it becomes readily apparent that genuine statesmanship is necessary. America is still the dealer in international politics, and everyone else are players. Now is not the time for the US to decide to be a rogue nation. I'm not one who worships the ground on which Obama walks, and I do not characterise McCain as pure malevolence. For that matter, though, I do not consider Obama to be some kind of second coming of Karl Marx and McCain another T. Roosevelt. I'm an outsider looking in, quite convinced (probably like much of the rest of the world) that things like Obama's relation to a venom-spitting pastor, Palin's ability to nail a wolf between the eyes from a chopper, or McCain's quizzical averring that he's fighting for a bloke who is more loosely connected to plumbing than the Mario Brothers will amount to absolutely nothing in terms of capacity to govern. That is the operative word: govern. Wishing no offence to Mr McCain, his declaration that Americans are not voting for a "distributor-in-chief but a commander-in-chief" is the kind of jingoistic rhetoric than makes allies wince and rivals roll their eyes. Summarising foreign policy broadly as clouting everyone into line with military action is disheartening for the international community, which has a considerable stake in this election as well.
CastorTroy		#10	[-]
Posts: 2127 (11/03/2008 2:53 PM) I'LL STEAL IT! NO ONE WILL EVER KNOW! Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	I've already voted Obama, because John McCain is 8 years past his relevancy-expiration date and Sarah Palin is a terrible human being. I'm not expecting miracles from an Obama presidency, but I'm at least expecting to be able to respect the office of President once again, something I haven't been able to do for the last 8 years. And the OBAMA = SOCIALIST nonsense is so very tired at this point. If you're calling Obama a socialist for advocating a progressive tax structure (aka rich people need to pay a higher proportion than poor people), then you might as well be calling Adam Smith (the father of the free market system who stated in his book The Wealth Of Nations "It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.") a Marxist. Last Edited By: CastorTroy 11/03/2008 2:59 PM. Edited 1 times.
Fexus		#11	[-]
Posts: 2811 (11/03/2008 3:52 PM) Dubba Puppet C Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	I'm using my freedom to not vote. I know it's important, but what really matters is that I'm so un-inspired by this election that I don't even want to be a part of it. I've had Obama, McCain, Biden and Palin interrupt my daily life with their debates, campaigns and road signs on a daily basis and after this election I really couldn't give a care and a half to who gets elected. "Oh, but you should at least vote! It matters!" So does my opinion on voting for people who I don't want in office. Neither appeal to me in the least, and I am not blindly saying that, I've looked into their major points. "Just vote for Obama, he wants change and change is good!" Um... wow, that's very un-inspiring. Do you know exactly what he's planning on changing and how it'll effect you? If you don't know, then I don't care about your opinion. Don't vote for him because of his race, just doing that is about the most racist thing I can think of. Yeah, caucasian people did that, but I honestly don't see nearly as much racism from white people, indian people, asians and puerto-rican people as I do from black people in todays society. It's not everyone, please don't take that personal, I have alot of friends who are of all races, backgrounds and colors, but none are ignorant to being racist. "Vote for McCain, he'll save the economy!" Um, no. he won't. What will save the economy is US making the right decisions. Not just you and me, but everyone, even those in office, at wall street, those running the oil businesses and those running international trade and production. We have a democracy (don't think democrat) and in a democracy we have the ability to be heard. Try contacting your congress man/woman or sending a letter. Enough people complain about something and you may just see a change. It still is a popular vote however, so it's up to you to convince people of your point of view. In short, please, if you are going to vote for someone and have no legitimate reason to support them other than change or the economy or good promises from either side, then don't vote. You have that freedom. not every country has the same freedoms that we have. Then again, not every country is impacted so much from the media, much like this election has been. Last Edited By: Fexus 11/03/2008 4:55 PM. Edited 3 times.
Ultra Sonic 007		#12	[-]
Posts: 15294 (11/03/2008 4:00 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	CastorTroy wrote: And the OBAMA = SOCIALIST nonsense is so very tired at this point. If you're calling Obama a socialist for advocating a progressive tax structure (aka rich people need to pay a higher proportion than poor people), then you might as well be calling Adam Smith (the father of the free market system who stated in his book The Wealth Of Nations "It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.") a Marxist. Hint: they already do pay a higher proportion than poor people. There IS a limit.
CastorTroy		#13	[-]
Posts: 2131 (11/03/2008 4:15 PM) I'LL STEAL IT! NO ONE WILL EVER KNOW! Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Ultra Sonic 007 wrote: CastorTroy wrote: And the OBAMA = SOCIALIST nonsense is so very tired at this point. If you're calling Obama a socialist for advocating a progressive tax structure (aka rich people need to pay a higher proportion than poor people), then you might as well be calling Adam Smith (the father of the free market system who stated in his book The Wealth Of Nations "It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.") a Marxist. Hint: they already do pay a higher proportion than poor people. There IS a limit. So you're saying that if a middle class man pays 20% and a rich man pays 21%, the middle class guy's better off? Really? Are you really saying that the middle class guy doesn't need 20% of his $30,000 a year more than the rich guy needs his 21% of 30,000,000 a year? Trickle-down DOESN'T WORK. It has never worked on ANYTHING IN ALL OF HISTORY. Nothing is ever fixed by giving the rich MORE MONEY. Things don't get fixed from the top-down, they get fixed from the bottom-up. That's how physical reality works: you fix the engine first instead of slapping some wax on the hood and hoping the engine fixes itself! A pretty pillar with no sturdy base is always going to fall down, it's only a matter of time. Is that enough analogies for you, because I have some more if you're still going to spout voodoo-math nonsense about how the rich needing to cough up their fair friggin' share is somehow a "bad thing". I want the Republicans to be CRUSHED this election. I want blood in the streets. I want them to wonder why they ever bothered to nominate someone in the first place. I want them to lose so badly they eat themselves alive with the blame game. That way, maybe after they've kicked out the neocons and the fundies, they might be a respectable party of actual CONSERVATIVES again. I short, I want this but with blue instead of red. Last Edited By: CastorTroy 11/03/2008 4:19 PM. Edited 2 times.
Toby Barrett		#14	[-]
Posts: 970 (11/03/2008 4:25 PM) My Mom Says I'm Cool. Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	I'll vote the day there's someone worth voting for.
CastorTroy		#15	[-]
Posts: 2134 (11/03/2008 5:17 PM) I'LL STEAL IT! NO ONE WILL EVER KNOW! Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Vote anyway. No excuses. I don't even care who for; just vote.
Fexus	You know where my vote is going...	#16	[-]
Posts: 2812 (11/03/2008 5:27 PM) Dubba Puppet C Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post
KaylaTheHedgehog		#17	[-]
Posts: 2867 (11/03/2008 5:35 PM) Let's do the Time Warp again! Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Fexus wrote: le sigh If only it were possible, I'd vote for you in a heartbeat. As of now, I've already voted McCain, though I'm pretty confident that either one is going to screw us over something fierce. My DeviantArt account We're more than carbon and chemicals We are the image of the Invisible We all were lost now we are found No one can stop us or slow us down We all are named and we are known We know that we'll never walk alone ~Thrice
CastorTroy		#18	[-]
Posts: 2136 (11/03/2008 6:00 PM) I'LL STEAL IT! NO ONE WILL EVER KNOW! Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Obama's grandmother has died from cancer at 86. That's incredibly sad. I can only imagine how much both Barack and his grandmother had wanted to see this moment happen. McCain was classy in giving his condolences. The California GOP... less so.
D B Vulpix		#19	[-]
Posts: 1114 (11/03/2008 6:00 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Obama I think is kicking the "Bradley Effects butt" Unless a lot of white voters change their mind at the last possible second. But thats yet to be seen. Fanfiction: Canis Canem Venture
TransFAN92		#20	[-]
Posts: 2076 (11/03/2008 6:12 PM) Feuer Frei! Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Apparently you don't know what the Bradley Effect is... people say the black guy's (in this case Obama) name in the polls out of fear of appearing racist, but when the curtain closes, they say to themselves "President Barack Obama" a few times, blink, and then hit McCain. Of course, on the other side of it (which there should be a name for th is) people will vote him just because of his color... racism will work both ways, but I think the former side will win out. I think it will be another 10-15 years before that breed of thinking dies out of power in a matter like this. And btw, I disagree with most people who scream racist in an issue, but that is what this will come down to, not who is the best choice. Look no further than Sal on Howard Stern asking people in Harlem who they are voting for and then giving them (false) facts (IE Palin as Obama's VP) and having them agree. EDIT: And if it was left it up to me, I would have a None of the Above/Do Over option. And can the Independents come up with someone other than Ralph Nader, who has to be 90 years old? I forgot the guy was sitll alive. Gripping the wheel his knuckles went white with desire The wheels of his Mustang exploding on the highway like a slug from a .45 True death: 400 horsepower of maximum performance piercing the night This is black sunshine. Last Edited By: TransFAN92 11/03/2008 6:14 PM. Edited 1 times.

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Well, it's about time to kick Dubya out

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