Game Over Thinker : Sonic in Crisis

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D B Vulpix		#21	[-]
Posts: 1610 (04/07/2009 10:59 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Veckums wrote: Espio... actually the ninja thing was a good idea, but they made it the only thing, and they left out any other traits. haha Espio never had other traits in the video game. A ninja is all he is. Sonic x Lady of the Lake
Robobotnik		#22	[-]
Posts: 3522 (04/07/2009 12:00 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	You make a good point Vec, the multitude of characters isn't inherently the problem, but the tacking on of alternative gameplay styles. I can think of loads of games with multiple characters that don't change the game but mix things up with varied attributes. However, I think there is a point where we have to ask what purpose most of the cast serve now, Sonic, Knuckles, Tails, and Amy are the only characters that are unique to themselves at some point, others being alternative versions of the first three...I guess Silver stands out to, but I still don't like him! }:-( Edit: Part 2 is finally up. I agree to most of what he says, minus the idea about killing off the cast, I'm more in favour of the reboot idea taking inspiration from SatAM, though I'd recommend StC more so out of bias... I also disagree about the cities, Star Light Zone and Casino Night Zone both have big cities in the background, however if they're the remnants of humans no longer around on the planet, like the city in the OVA then I'd be very happy. Help support the British Games Industry Last Edited By: Robobotnik 04/10/2009 7:37 AM. Edited 1 times.
Ashide Bunni		#23	[-]
Posts: 4970 (04/10/2009 11:47 AM) oro? Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Some of the stuff he suggested has already been done in the 3D games with some questionable results, such as the running on water gimmick. And ugh, at the story reboot suggestion.
Robobotnik		#24	[-]
Posts: 3524 (04/10/2009 1:52 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	I don't think a story reboot is a bad idea in this case, as much as I loath retcons and resets I would much rather that than the current mess we have. The question is could SEGA do it without falling into the same crap hole? Help support the British Games Industry
John Taylor		#25	[-]
Posts: 2621 (04/10/2009 3:25 PM) If I was in World War 2, They'd call me Spitfire. Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Haven't seen the videos. Cant be bothered to be angry any more. Why a story retcon? The events barely follow game to game. The only possible exceptions are The Adventure series (even then its blink and you'll miss it) and Shadow (lol). What I think he mean is if you are going to do a big story, spread it over a few games. Like Beyond Good and Evil and Too Human... ohwait. But then again the Sonic series is profitable enough to do that. Re-establish the universe(Characters, art etc.) within those games. Game 1: Establish Sonic and close friends and Eggman and their goals. Nothing too major. Game 2: Establish the extended world. (GUN, Angel Island etc.) Game 3: Try and sort out the future world and Blaze's dimension. Game 4: (A more Adventure styled plot, Multiple characters meeting up) Eggman Wins at the end of the game.To be continued.... Game 5: Sonic beats Eggman. General Staredown between Eggman and Sonic at the end. Start it over again. Its not completely rigid as planning out a trilogy of games. There would be room for spin offs and the like in between the games. Sir Vec is spot on about the playable characters. The basic trouble with the Sonic games is they haven't managed to get Sonic to work properly, so if they cant get Sonic to work properly they cant get Metal Sonic, Shadow and Blaze to work because they are effectively Sonic. They cant get Tails to work because Tails is Flying Sonic. They cant get Knuckles to work because he is Gliding and Climbing Sonic. They cant get Rouge to work because she is a strange mix of Tails and Knuckles and her abilities vary from game to game. They cant get Espio to work because he is Stealth Sonic. Etc. The only possible exceptions to the rule that "They are Sonic" are Amy and Silver. Even then they are still working from the broken gameplay that Sonic works from. Also, can Sonic games look like Sonic games again? I mean you know, I'm cool with making the checkerboards looking uber realistic with water erosion and stuff, but even in the very cartoony Unleashed its hard for me to like the levels. I used to like them but after a while they lose their charm. Christ, I'll even take game that looks like a 3D Rush. [url]http://profile.mygamercard.net/JohnBoyAdvance[/url] [img]http://card.mygamercard.net/JohnBoyAdvance.png[/img] Last Edited By: John Taylor 04/10/2009 3:33 PM. Edited 1 times.
D B Vulpix		#26	[-]
Posts: 1622 (04/10/2009 4:03 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Hah. I love how he says they should start calling him Dr. Robotnik again now as if every Sonic fan in the world agrees with that. I think He should call himself Robotnik and everyone else calls him Eggman as an insult. Sonic x Lady of the Lake
D B Vulpix		#27	[-]
Posts: 1623 (04/10/2009 4:07 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Hah. I love how he says they should start calling him Dr. Robotnik again now as if every Sonic fan in the world agrees with that. I think He should call himself Robotnik and everyone else calls him Eggman as an insult. Also I see no reason why there shouldn't be any humans. the old 2D games had plenty a city themed levels. Although it could be argued that those levels are comprised of the ancient remains of human society that no longer exsists soooo eeeh i dunno. Sonic x Lady of the Lake
Ashide Bunni		#28	[-]
Posts: 4971 (04/10/2009 4:34 PM) oro? Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Robobotnik wrote: I don't think a story reboot is a bad idea in this case, as much as I loath retcons and resets I would much rather that than the current mess we have. The question is could SEGA do it without falling into the same crap hole? The idea of a reboot isn't that bad in itself, it's just his ideas for a possible reboot I disagree with. Explanations of why Sonic his blue or inner tormoils of having to leave his home village? That's just as bad as many of the stories we have in the post-Genesis/MD era as we have today. It also seems silly that he wants Sonic to follow the Mario path when Mario's stories are pretty dang simplistic, and arguably better for it. I also disagree that Sonic's world should be dominated by only animals/animals living in villages and cities--unless by animals he means the South Island friends and not the multicolored funny cartoon animal cast he specifically said he loathed. I also don't mind good humans appearing either as long as they are stylized like Eggman and npc. Overall the video isn't that different than every other "This is how to save Sonic" article that is available on the net. Last Edited By: Ashide Bunni 04/10/2009 4:37 PM. Edited 1 times.
D B Vulpix		#29	[-]
Posts: 1625 (04/10/2009 7:25 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	I did like the gameplay ideas he touched upon. Like the running over water thing. Sonic Team hasn't done it in the way he described and I personally think that would be fun. I've actually said that exact same idea to some friends of mine at school. muwaha. I also agree with the idea of using more momentum to grain speed instead of just boost pads/boosting all the time so that you can have the option of using both methods. He didn't really talk about level design in any substantial way. Oh well. Sonic x Lady of the Lake
Ashide Bunni		#30	[-]
Posts: 4972 (04/10/2009 8:56 PM) oro? Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	But Sonic running over water was in Unleashed and the Advance games. I think that mechanic in Unleashed would be better if there was a whole 'nother level below the water instead of a bottomless pit.
D B Vulpix		#31	[-]
Posts: 1627 (04/10/2009 9:12 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	I don't think enemies actively attacked you when you ran over water in Unleashed. And I think he meant that as a whole level instead of just a piece of a level. Sonic x Lady of the Lake
Ashide Bunni		#32	[-]
Posts: 4973 (04/11/2009 12:23 AM) oro? Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	That sounds like a recipe for ROM-hack level disaster--especially if the running water mechanics are the same as Unleashed.
Dreamer of Nights		#33	[-]
Posts: 4872 (04/11/2009 12:30 AM) Sonic HQ Staff Member That has a custom title. Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Reminds me of Genocide City (from Sonic 2 rom beta, sans the water of course).
Robobotnik		#34	[-]
Posts: 3526 (04/11/2009 4:17 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	The idea of a reboot isn't that bad in itself, it's just his ideas for a possible reboot I disagree with. Explanations of why Sonic his blue or inner tormoils of having to leave his home village? That's just as bad as many of the stories we have in the post-Genesis/MD era as we have today. It also seems silly that he wants Sonic to follow the Mario path when Mario's stories are pretty dang simplistic, and arguably better for it. True, but he does admit to just pulling it out of his arse for the sake of argument, and his point was mainly about characterizing Sonic and pals so we can connect to them better. However I don't think this is necessary for a good story, Link has never been characterized as anything more than a hero of prophesy but has always had decent stories regardless. And even if they do, trying to explain why Sonic is blue and fast doesn't work anyway, because then there's why does Tails have two tails, why is Knuckles red, why is Amy pink, why do all the animals stand on two legs and talk, and so on, it's just not needed. Help support the British Games Industry
D B Vulpix		#35	[-]
Posts: 1628 (04/11/2009 5:18 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Ashide Bunni wrote: That sounds like a recipe for ROM-hack level disaster--especially if the running water mechanics are the same as Unleashed. Then the mechanics wouldn't be like the ones from Unleashed of course. And there would be brief moments of reprive so you aren't running constantly over the ocean. So basically running across water to island to island to island. Sonic x Lady of the Lake
Ashide Bunni		#36	[-]
Posts: 4974 (04/11/2009 7:38 PM) oro? Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Robobotnik wrote: True, but he does admit to just pulling it out of his arse for the sake of argument, and his point was mainly about characterizing Sonic and pals so we can connect to them better. However I don't think this is necessary for a good story, Link has never been characterized as anything more than a hero of prophesy but has always had decent stories regardless. And even if they do, trying to explain why Sonic is blue and fast doesn't work anyway, because then there's why does Tails have two tails, why is Knuckles red, why is Amy pink, why do all the animals stand on two legs and talk, and so on, it's just not needed. Oh I do have to agree that Sega's work on characterization for this franchise has been pretty poor. It seems like Sega want to keep the four main protagonists(Sonic, Tails Knuckles and Amy) personalities one-diminsional as possible while having them sputter out too much inane dialogue that makes them unappealing. Sega could have continued the route in the current games which was established in the Genesis/MD games in which everyone was mute and let their actions/gestures speak for themselves(maybe have Eggman as the only one dialogue), however they seem to choose the path that everybody is a squawk-box. This wouldn't have been too bad if the dialogue wasn't cringe-worthy and the characters haven't been Flanderized to the point of being dull, stupid, and repulsive. Part of the problem is that many characters beyond the main four are clones archetype-wise and/or personality-wise. My theory is that due to this Sega/ST dilutes any of the more interesting/reedeming parts of the main four to transfer that to newer characters in a shoddy attempt at differentation.
Veckums		#37	[-]
Posts: 1504 (04/11/2009 11:37 PM) A drunken sandwich Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	haha Espio never had other traits in the video game. A ninja is all he is. Have you played Chaotix? His animations had more style to them than Sonic's and he seems to be even more of a showoff. But neo Sonic Team thinks that "being like Sonic" is a bad thing. And you had me at "reboot to SatAM and make Sonic emo about leaving his village." This guy is the last person to talk to. shakespeare gets so tired of time travellers telling him not to listen to his mp3s because of all the anachronism he's causing. shakespeare just wants to ROCK!
Robobotnik		#38	[-]
Posts: 3528 (04/12/2009 7:46 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	And you had me at "reboot to SatAM and make Sonic emo about leaving his village." This guy is the last person to talk to. That's an unfair oversimplification of what he said, he used SatAM as an example of when story was cared for a lot more than it is currently, and gave his self admitted half arsed idea as an example of characterization, both of which are major problems with the series as it stands. Even if we do compare Mario to Sonic in terms of story, Mario always sticks to stories that work for Mario, knowing that he isn't someone for deep emotive narratives and at best use humour and storybook styles for the RPGs and Galaxy respectively. With Sonic they always try to do some overblown plot with wooden characters, apocalyptic scenarios, bad cliches, and forgetting that Sonic isn't Bruce Willis but a metre tall blue talking hedgehog with super speed. And when they don't do this they fill the game with bad dialogue, and just throw random plot points in like Shadow coming back from the dead with barely anyone noticing he should be dead. Help support the British Games Industry
The Turtle Guy		#39	[-]
Posts: 4330 (04/12/2009 8:53 AM) Time Traveller Scalie Power! Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	And he must let the world believe that he is dead, until he can find a way to control the raging spirit within him. stolen from here, natch
Rishi		#40	[-]
Posts: 3079 (04/12/2009 11:25 AM) JJ's secret squeezer Homofur Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	The Turtle Guy wrote: Shadow Unleashed - coming to game stores on the 21st of December 2012!

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Game Over Thinker : Sonic in Crisis

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