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Welcome to Knothole Village! Take a visit here under the shade of the Great Forest and chill for a while. This forum is open for all discussion on absolutely ANYTHING concerning the Archie Sonic Comics, or their cartoon origins in Sonic SatAM and AoStH. SU discussion is also okay here. Consider this place a hub for all fans that wish to discuss, complain, or praise recent goings on. Have fun! :) |
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 Veckums |
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Posts: 1509 (04/15/2009 5:40 AM) A drunken sandwich
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Starting with the awful Mobius 25 years later universe at only issue #3 is a great way to kill the Sonic Universe series. What are they thinking?
They got a lot of fan mail about it I guess? What method do they employ to determine what is "popular?" |
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Full Metal Rayzor |
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Posts: 2869 (04/15/2009 4:30 PM) pillar of optimism! |
Veckums wrote: They're thinking it's popular and therefore they're going to use it. Remember, it's your opinion that it's awful; I never had any problem with it and thought it was fairly good. I know it's the general consensus around here and Ian's board that they weren't all that great, but I have seen people who really enjoyed M25YL or like me and didn't think it was the greatest thing ever but not bad either. As for how they determine popular, well, seeing as how every editor, including Mike, and even Ian urge readers to email how much they want something or how they like a story, etc., I'm quite sure they determine popularity by email repsonses and sales probably help as well.
"Drinking beer is easy. Trashing your hotel room is easy. But being a Christian, that's a tough call. That's real rebellion!"-Vincent Damon
Furnier, AKA Alice Cooper
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Bsonic10 |
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Posts: 314 (04/15/2009 5:49 PM) |
Full Metal Rayzor wrote: They don't just think it's popular, they know it is. They've gotten enough positive feedback (through e-mail, snail mail, etc.) to make it popular enough to come back (at least that's what Ian says). I personally am not the biggest fan of M:XYL, especially Penders' version, but I'm willing to give this one a chance. They are more or less starting from scratch with this one. |
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Alex Warlorn.netraptorsforums |
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Posts: 1 (04/15/2009 7:16 PM) |
For Sonic Universe # 5: a harsh reminder that I doubt the comic or any of the characters there-in is even going to cover how in the original timeline Lara and
the royal siblings were the same age (and the emotion and mental implications of such). But now with the timeline reset and Sonic and Sal only getting together
years later they're both 'now' kiddos while Lara is by now a grown woman... This would seriously screw her in the head. And it's a nasty
reminder that no one is gonna think about that the timeline WAS altered, and that past and future no longer exist~!!! So that Sonia II and Manic II, THAT
version of them, STILL never existed!
Kinda a lemon juice in the paper cut when you think about it huh? For Sonic it's like seeing them grow up all over again, (which for some parents could be a good or bad thing). For the majority of characters, this is the only life the twins have ever known. For Lara it could be seen that she's been robbed of growing up with her two best friends this time. She can never related to them the way she did in the original timeline due to the age difference, and they'll never be able to truly relate to her the way they did in a existence they don't even remember! In the original timeline they were part of a whole, now the twins are their own whole and Lara is just their care taker and can't have the bound with them they had before. Which is a kinda cruel reminder of how their attempts to fix up the bugs in reality seriously backfired on them (King Shadow's legacy!). There's nothing keeping her from forming a NEW bound with the twins (who may or may not have been twins in the original timeline), but her memories of growing up WITH THEM are actually gonna seriously hinder this, since we like to keep with what we know, but Lara can't go back to what she knew since Tails PRECISELY said trying to muck up the timeline again to fix things would only turn the world on it's head again. After all, imagine how you'd feel about EFFECTIVELY having your two best friends age regressed to age zero, and left with no memories of their past existence? And if you tried to tell them anything of their past existence, they'll think you're crazy, or you'll just seriously screw them up in the head! Lara could, under certain times of stress of keeping the two under control (depending if they've inherited their father's speed again in this timeline) come to DETEST the two of them, and see them as merely cheap fakes or -replacements- of the two friends she knew! Given Ian Potto's love of 'POW! SMACK! BOOM!' this won't likely be a central part of the story since they'll be too busy saving the world for Lara to bother sorting through her confusing emotions about the royal twins. After all, as far as Sega is concerned people only buy this comic to see characters fight (corporate suits). Nothing is ever going to make them the best buddies that Lara knew, and they'll never have a clue about the emotional torrent going on inside Lara about them. Like most of mobius' heroes, she able to push things aside when it's time to save the world, but once the dust settles and they have peace for at least one more day, the underlying emotional problem will still be there. When they grew up together, they were on the same side of the classic conflict "us verses the adults" but now Lara has to endure the truth that they're on opposite sides. Lara might still have her memories of her childhood with Sonia and Manic -which might actually hurt more than comfort at times- but the new twins will never have the memories they had with her, and while she might become a positive parental figure in their eyes or at best an elder sibling to look up to, THEY'LL NEVER be the 'part of a set' that the tree of them once where that Lara enjoyed being a part of. |
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Questern |
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Posts: 716 (04/16/2009 12:11 AM) Captain
Sarcasm: |
Erm, 1. Welcome, 2. Trying to apply time theory to a comic about a blue hedgehog is kinda hopeless; just sit back and enjoy the ride.
"If my calculations are correct...when this baby hits 88 mph...you're gonna see some serious s***." ~Back to the Future
"Don't worry about the world coming to an end today. It's already tomorrow in Australia." ~Charles Schultz
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Alex Warlorn |
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Posts: 428 (04/16/2009 12:49 AM) |
Perhaps. Perhaps not. But if applying heart and emotion to a comic about a blue hedgehog was pointless, then a lot of us wouldn't be here.
Riding the Wave is: Skeith, the Shadow of Death,
to drown all that stands. |
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Administrative |
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Posts: 61 (04/16/2009 1:07 AM) |
For Lara it could be seen that she's been robbed of growing up with her two best friends this time. She can never related to them the way she did in the original timeline due to the age difference, and they'll never be able to truly relate to her the way they did in a existence they don't even remember! The kids didn't strike me as " best friends " in the original timeline. Even there Sonia and Manic were still a few years younger then Lara-Su and she seemed to treat them as such. Their relationship seemed to basically be that they were the children of parents who were friends so they were obligated to be civil with one another. I'm also kind of doubting she grew up with them in the same way the Freedom Fighters / Chaotix grew up together, too, considering that Knuckles' family still lived on Angel Island while Sonic's lived in Mobotropolis. In chaotic times both groups visited each other often but in the more peaceful times of M:XYL they may not have except for diplomatic reason like the whole " the world's going to end any second " thing. From what I remember about the older arch Lara-Su might be more upset over the loss of Salma or Rutan then of Sonia or Manic. They were closer to her age and she seemed to think of at least Salma as a close friend. |
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Alex Warlorn |
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Posts: 429 (04/16/2009 2:49 AM) |
Good argument. Except if that was so, then Lara wouldn't have lamented about "remembering friends who don't exist." during King Shadow while
showing an image of Sonia and Manic.
Riding the Wave is: Skeith, the Shadow of Death,
to drown all that stands. |
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Questern |
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Posts: 718 (04/16/2009 12:09 PM) Captain
Sarcasm: |
Perhaps. Perhaps not. But if applying heart and emotion to a comic about a blue hedgehog was pointless, then a lot of us wouldn't be here. I didn't say a thing about heart and emotion. I was mostly referring to: But now with the timeline reset and Sonic and Sal only getting together years later they're both 'now' kiddos while Lara is by now a grown woman... This would seriously screw her in the head. And it's a nasty reminder that no one is gonna think about that the timeline WAS altered, and that past and future no longer exist~!!! So that Sonia II and Manic II, THAT version of them, STILL never existed! Plus, everyone's age is appropriate (EX: Lara-Su is still a teenager), and Sonic and Sally had Sonic (II) and Manic (II) real quick; we're hopping into the timeline 5 years after.
"If my calculations are correct...when this baby hits 88 mph...you're gonna see some serious s***." ~Back to the Future
"Don't worry about the world coming to an end today. It's already tomorrow in Australia." ~Charles Schultz
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Alex Warlorn |
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Posts: 430 (04/16/2009 12:24 PM) |
"I didn't say a thing about heart and emotion."
But heart and emotion was the point of what I was saying. The point is that the Sonia II and Manic II that Lara knew STILL don't, and never did exist except for her and those who remember them. But Lara is now the defunct baby sitter of a couple of kids who have the names and faces of the friends she knew but will never BE those friends which would discomfort anyone if they had lost someone. "Plus, everyone's age is appropriate (EX: Lara-Su is still a teenager), and Sonic and Sally had Sonic (II) and Manic (II) real quick; we're hopping into the timeline 5 years after." You do realize that your teens only last seven years right? And that Lara was 16 during 25 years later, she's an adult woman during 30 years later at age 21.
Riding the Wave is: Skeith, the Shadow of Death,
to drown all that stands. |
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Posts: 63 (04/16/2009 12:54 PM) |
Good argument. Except if that was so, then Lara wouldn't have lamented about "remembering friends who don't exist." during King Shadow while showing an image of Sonia and Manic. Now they do exist. Problem solved. But Lara is now the defunct baby sitter of a couple of kids who have the names and faces of the friends she knew but will never BE those friends which would discomfort anyone if they had lost someone. It's telling the same story with a different tune essentially. The only thing we know that's changed about Sonia and Manic so far is their age. There's little else keeping them from being the person that they used to be. Lara-Su still has a chance to befriend the children. If anything this would be an improvement over what they used to have because it looks like the children will be living in the same city now. They won't have the long distant relationship they had in the original timeline. Besides ... Guardians like Lara-Su have much longer lifespans then Base Mobians. Waiting 10 years or so for Sonia and Manic to reach the age they used to be won't be that bad. |
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Alex Warlorn.netraptorsforums |
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Posts: 2 (04/16/2009 1:56 PM) |
"Now they do exist. Problem solved."
*looks at you funny* Look if you don't want to actually debate this then you're free not to respond. The whole point is that 'they' still DON'T because 'they' refers to the Manic and Sonia that Lara knew before, the twins will never be the Sonia and Manic that Lara knew, and thus arises the emotional conflict of having to look after two with the names of faces of two people that only you and a couple others know ever existed, who under the right amount of emotional stress Lara could see as impostors. "It's telling the same story with a different tune essentially. The only thing we know that's changed about Sonia and Manic so far is their age. There's little else keeping them from being the person that they used to be." Two words: 'Butterfly effect.' "Lara-Su still has a chance to befriend the children." The point is if she'd be emotionally able to or willing to. How comfortable would you feel around a pair of kids with the names and faces of two friends who are gone. Saying they're alive because the twins are alive is like saying if Prime Sonic was alive after Prime Sonic died because Scourge was still alive. "If anything this would be an improvement over what they used to have because it looks like the children will be living in the same city now. They won't have the long distant relationship they had in the original timeline." The point is no matter what friendship Lara has with the twins, no matter how good, it won't be the relationship she was used to having, comfortable with having with Manic and Sonia before and WON'T be the Sonia and Manic she knew. "Besides ... Guardians like Lara-Su have much longer lifespans then Base Mobians. Waiting 10 years or so for Sonia and Manic to reach the age they used to be won't be that bad." I believe one of the points I made was that she wouldn't have been able to shared her childhood WITH them, and thus the bound they had. |
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Administrative |
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Posts: 64 (04/16/2009 6:40 PM) |
Look if you don't want to actually debate this then you're free not to respond. I don't think this is worth debating because I and most people given the negative response to this arch I've seen here and elsewhere don't seem to care about the intimate details behind these recolors passed off as the second generation. That said I do like to argue - I mean debate when the opportunity arises. I'm not ignoring points with my responses for the record. I worked from the bottom and made my way up. Three fourths of the way there I realized that whatever else I had to say would be redundant so I went ahead with this. The point is if she'd be emotionally able to or willing to. It would be awfully selfish of her if she didn't. It's not their fault the world got messed. They were innocent in the original timeline and they're innocent now. If she should be mad or hold a grudge against anyone it should be Sonic, not his children. How comfortable would you feel around a pair of kids with the names and faces of two friends who are gone. Personally? I'd be intrigued and think it was fate, but that's still bringing the Real World into Mobius. Things work differently on Mobius. On Mobius it doesn't seem to matter where on the timeline that the character was born as long as they came from the same parents. The same could be said for Lara-Su herself who appears to be a slightly different one then the one in her original appearance. Genetically speaking the chances of parents having two children who look exactly the same but are not twins is pathetically low and borders on nonexistent in the Real World. On Mobius where fate seems to be predetermined the is genetically the same no matter when the parents have them in the timeline. That means Sonic and Sally could have Sonia and Manic right now in the main timeline and they still be the same children that they were in M:XYL. Every depiction of their children no matter where in the timeline it happened or how likely / unlikely the events leading up to it would be they had a Chipmunk daughter and a Hedgehog son. That leads me to believe that they are the same children here and now and throughout the universe with the same quirks, personality, and everything only with a different age. In the Real World the odds of that happening are virtually nonexistent but this is Mobius. The laws of their world are drastically different then ours. Saying they're alive because the twins are alive is like saying if Prime Sonic was alive after Prime Sonic died because Scourge was still alive. That's a whole other barrel of fish because Scourge isn't the same mobian he used to be (an alternate Sonic) under very special circumstances. If you don't believe Scourge Zonic said it also. It's not like the twins are alternates, anyway. They're the same mobians that they were before just born at a different point in the timeline. The point is no matter what friendship Lara has with the twins, no matter how good, it won't be the relationship she was used to having, comfortable with having with Manic and Sonia before and WON'T be the Sonia and Manic she knew. Friends are Friends. Apples are Apples and Oranges are Oranges. The only thing that's changed is how they could potentially become friends. I still don't see how she can't have what she did with the kids before. Certain moments / events / memories cannot be redone but the feeling behind them is still there. I believe one of the points I made was that she wouldn't have been able to shared her childhood WITH them, and thus the bound they had. Has it been said anywhere in the original timeline that Sonia, Manic, and Lara-Su grew up together? I don't believe that they did. They may have seen each other occasionally on about the same level as Knuckles and Sally did as children but that was about it. It's not like they lived down the street from each other and went to the same schools. They lived on different continents. In the new timeline Lara-Su gets to see them whenever she wants because they appear to live in the same city. She has plenty of time to form a bond with the children. |
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Alex Warlorn |
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Posts: 431 (04/16/2009 8:31 PM) |
"I don't think this is worth debating"
Then please stop clogging up the board with argument for argument's sake. Contrary to popular belief, I prefer to discuss. "It would be awfully selfish of her if she didn't. It's not their fault the world got messed. They were innocent in the original timeline and they're innocent now. If she should be mad or hold a grudge against anyone it should be Sonic, not his children. " Lara's not perfect, and she's shown the ability to be stubborn and self-center when under the right amount of stress (like her parents). "Personally? I'd be intrigued and think it was fate, but that's still bringing the Real World into Mobius." If you have no desire to see, or believe or think that that kind of character depth can or should exist in this 30 pages or less video game commercial, then please do not discuss or retort points of depth. "That's a whole other barrel of fish because Scourge isn't the same mobian he used to be (an alternate Sonic) under very special circumstances. If you don't believe Scourge Zonic said it also. It's not like the twins are alternates, anyway. They're the same mobians that they were before just born at a different point in the timeline. " Incorrect. A person is shaped by experiences, and these two will NEVER have the same experiences their previous selves did. "Friends are Friends. Apples are Apples and Oranges are Oranges. The only thing that's changed is how they could potentially become friends. I still don't see how she can't have what she did with the kids before. Certain moments / events / memories cannot be redone but the feeling behind them is still there. " Sigh. I'm beginning to wonder if you're reading what I'm writing almost. Feelings and people are MOLDED by certain moments/ events/memories. "Has it been said anywhere in the original timeline that Sonia, Manic, and Lara-Su grew up together? " Where did it say they didn't? Otherwise my point of view is just as valid as yours. "I don't believe that they did." I believe they did, as much as they could at least. So we're even. "They may have seen each other occasionally on about the same level as Knuckles and Sally did as children but that was about it. It's not like they lived down the street from each other and went to the same schools. They lived on different continents. In the new timeline Lara-Su gets to see them whenever she wants because they appear to live in the same city." That doesn't explain why she would think of them in particular when she was talking about friends she remember that don't exist. When, as pointed out, she had other friends who at first glance she'd have logically been closer who appear to have also been erased. "She has plenty of time to form a bond with the children." UGH! How many times do I need to say this? It won't be the -same- bond, which is what would alienate Lara to the idea and that is what she would have to overcome to become friends with them! You can NOT have someone be born at a later date in the timeline and expect them to grow up to be the same person!
Riding the Wave is: Skeith, the Shadow of Death,
to drown all that stands. |
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Toby Barrett |
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Posts: 1114 (04/16/2009 8:38 PM) My Mom Says I'm Cool. |
Why do you care so much about annoying mini Sonic and cardboard cutout mini Sally? XD
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Questern |
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Posts: 719 (04/16/2009 9:16 PM) Captain
Sarcasm: |
You can NOT have someone be born at a later date in the timeline and expect them to grow up to be the same person!Knowing this comic, they most likely will be. Or Lara-Su will inadvertently shape their personalities!! OH NOES!!
"If my calculations are correct...when this baby hits 88 mph...you're gonna see some serious s***." ~Back to the Future
"Don't worry about the world coming to an end today. It's already tomorrow in Australia." ~Charles Schultz
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Alex Warlorn |
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Posts: 432 (04/16/2009 9:46 PM) |
Toby Barrett wrote: Who said I did? I am merely pointing out a bit of story logic. "Knowing this comic, they most likely will be." Given Ian Potto's love of fight scenes, I have to concur. I knew from the start they would. However I felt it needed to be said how it would be if things were more character driven than plot driven.
Riding the Wave is: Skeith, the Shadow of Death,
to drown all that stands.
Last Edited By: Alex Warlorn
04/16/2009 9:52 PM.
Edited 1 times.
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Administrative |
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Posts: 66 (04/17/2009 12:51 AM) |
This seems to be boiling down to a matter of personal beliefs over the facts so I'll withdraw.
Knowing this comic, they most likely will be. Or Lara-Su will inadvertently shape their personalities!! OH NOES!! That was what I was saying in a lot fewer words. 
Why do you care so much about annoying mini Sonic and cardboard cutout mini Sally? XD I don't even remember anything Sonia said or did of importance. The only thing I remember about Manic is that he was extremely annoying and appeared to be the butt of a lot of jokes. I'm sure neither is a good thing. |
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Alex Warlorn |
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Posts: 433 (04/17/2009 12:58 AM) |
"That was what I was saying in a lot fewer words. "
Sigh. The point IS that Lara is gonna be screwed in the head having to baby sit some five year olds who are "supposed" to be a lot closer to her own age and she has to keep it from said five year olds or accidently screw them in the head creating a barrier between them.
Riding the Wave is: Skeith, the Shadow of Death,
to drown all that stands. |
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MattManic7325 |
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Posts: 1307 (04/17/2009 5:01 AM) |
You don't know anything about how Lara is going to be feeling until you've read the issue, so don't go making assumptions about how things are
going to play out.
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